Ilderton Road

Yesterday & Today
How we lived then & How we live now
kiwi
Posts: 1065
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:53 am

Re: Ilderton Road

Postby kiwi » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:43 am

Hi Brian.
Thanks for that, it’s good when someone adds information to a picture, especially if they have lived or worked in that area, because it is their memories. When I read your post, it made me smile and in some way, it gives life to the picture. Cheers I really enjoyed that.
RAY.
VERNEY.jpg
ILDERTON ROAD, VERNEY RD TO THE RIGHT WITH ILDERTON PRIMARY SCHOOL IN BACKGROUND, THE SCHOOL IS IN VARCOE ROAD.

briancreasey44
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu May 25, 2017 3:31 pm

Re: Ilderton Road

Postby briancreasey44 » Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:18 am

Hi Ray,

I can't find any additional info on the cafe, but I did find some info on the Little Wonder pub!
It was originally at 9 Canterbury Road, but the address changed to 322 Ilderton Road around 1944 following the street renaming.
According to Pubhistory.com, the last landlord from 1944 was a Alfred Button Clarke, the pub itself was demolished in 1962.
It's a pity there doesn't seem to be any photos of the pub, it would be interesting to see how small it was!
My mum says she remembers my nan sending her up to the pub from Upcott Street to look for Granddad one Christmas eve... He was supposed to be going for a quick pint with his workmates from Ebonestas before shooting home to lay some lino before the big day.
She found him 3 sheets to the wind and barely able to walk! :D
I bet he wished he'd stayed in the pub, as once mum managed to steer him back home, he suffered the wrath of nan armed with a yard broom! :lol:

Brian.

kiwi
Posts: 1065
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:53 am

Re: Ilderton Road

Postby kiwi » Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:30 am

Hi Brian.
Had no luck with a picture of the pub but have found a map showing where it was. (red marks) As you said it is now the Tustin Estate. Found a little bit of information which might be why the pub was called the Little Wonder and maybe have been built by that family but this is just a theory on my part.
George England's Hatcham Iron Works in Pomeroy Street was the most important manufactory of railway locomotives in London from the 1840s to 1869. In 1869, England built the world famous Little Wonder (Fairlie patent) articulated locomotive, for the Ffestiniog Railway. In 1869 George England retired from Hatcham Iron Works because of ill health. Hatcham works was taken on lease by Robert Fairlie, George England junior, and J. S. Fraser. They completed construction of "Little Wonder.
LITTLE WONDER PUB (RED MARKS).jpg
LITTLE WONDER PUB (RED MARKS)
LITTLE WONDER.jpg
LITTLE WONDER
HATCHAM WORKS POMEROY STREET.jpg
HATCHAM WORKS POMEROY STREET

woodpoleman
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 5:45 pm
Location: Nantwich

Re: Ilderton Road

Postby woodpoleman » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:27 pm

I read with interest Brian Creasey's note on the origins of Ilderton Road posted on the previous Bermondsey Boy website. He referred to a map that he could no longer find. Many years ago I came across an old print of South Bermondsey in a bookshop in Bristol, its been on my wall ever since and have attached it below. Because of its size the only way I could reproduce it was to take a photograph but it may not be that clear when you enlarge it but here goes. If anybody would like a copy I can email it as a pdf so you can then enlarge beyond what's capable here.

South Bermondsey.JPG


I don't know how old the print is but it shows Ilderton Road as Brian originally said as White Post Lane, which went from the Old Kent Road and stopped at the canal. The area bounded by OKR, Rotherhithe New Road and Evelyn Street were market gardens, which I remember my grandfather referring to, he was born 1878 and died 1964. To the left of White Post Lane is a cul de sac named Canterbury Row, which I assume is where the pub got its name from. Brian was saying in his original post that he thought White Post Lane was cut off at the ambulance station. From the map it looks as if it took a dog leg at the ambulance station and then joined up with Canterbury Row.

I'd be interested to hear if anybody can throw more light on it.

Since posting I've just found that if you're using Windows then right click on the picture and select "open in new tab". Go to the new tab and it lets you enlarge it a bit more. Hope this helps.

briancreasey44
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu May 25, 2017 3:31 pm

Re: Ilderton Road

Postby briancreasey44 » Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:43 pm

Hi woodpoleman,

Yes, I think that is the same map I saw years ago!
Many thanks for posting it.
I would love a PDF of that if that's ok? I'll PM you my email address.

It definitely looks like White Post Lane was discected by the railway viaduct when it was built.
On the map, White Post Lane is pretty straight, from the OKR to the canal, apart from a slight kink at Manor Grove, which is still the case now!
The 'dog leg' in Ilderton Road doesn't start until you get to the Old Den car park entrance.
I found my original post about Ilderton Road and recovered the image I adapted. See below.
If you compare this to the map, it appears that the re-routed road joins the OKR precisely where Canterbury Place used to be... I wonder if this is how the road came to be know as Canterbury Road??


IMG_0072.PNG



Brian.

kiwi
Posts: 1065
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:53 am

Re: Ilderton Road

Postby kiwi » Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:33 am

Ilderton Road, The Towers, Tustin Estate. X.jpg
Ilderton Road, The Towers, Tustin Estate.
TOWERS.jpg
View from Ambleside Point, Tustin Estate. 1969. Ilderton Road in the foreground. Looking north east is the New Cross Greyhound Stadium and the Millwall football ground "THE DEN

briancreasey44
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu May 25, 2017 3:31 pm

Re: Ilderton Road

Postby briancreasey44 » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:44 am

Hi Ray,

That was an interesting read about the iron works in Pomeroy Street (do you know which end it was?) I remember my Granddad mentioning about a factory that made steam engines in New Cross, I just assumed he meant static engines!
In your most recent pictures, the view from Ambleside Point is very similar to the view my Nan had from the top floor of Heversham House.
I can just about remember the disused signal box; I think that was demolished in the early 70's.
The Little Wonder pub would have been pretty much at the bottom of the picture!
One interesting point is the old track bed that you can see behind the signal box and running through the gap between New Cross Stadium and the Old Den, is the line which is now back up and running again!
It's a pity that the Surrey Canal couldn't have been revived in the same way!

Brian.

kiwi
Posts: 1065
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:53 am

Re: Ilderton Road

Postby kiwi » Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:29 am

Hi BRIAN,
My best guess on where the HATCHAM WORKS was in Pomeroy Street, by looking at old maps and reading somewhere that it did have an address in Kender Street, which is the next street to Pomeroy Street. It would have been a big place, so would possibly have covered land between the two streets. Coming from Old Kent Road I think it would have been on your left-hand side just passed Clifton Way (was Clifton Road) which is on your right. I think that flats have been built there now and next door, was/is a company called A PLANT.
Glad to hear the railway line is back up and running and I agree with you regarding the Surrey Canal, it’s a shame it never survived. In my opinion this would have been a great tourist attraction, can you imagine them having a boat ride along that Canal or is this just me dreaming?

Regarding White Post Lane, I think you and Woodpoleman, have are more than lightly got it right. If you look at the map I posted it shows W.P.L going past the Ambulance Station and coming to a dead-end, I think it has been slightly re-routed. I have seen on other maps. W.P.L going more left than that and going under the railway track and into Canterbury Row as you both say.
Obviously, we can’t tell if it did actually go under the railway but it could have done, then on to the Canal where it seems to have come to an end. There was a bridge across the Canal there called White Post Lane Bridge and I believe it was a Swing Bridge?

briancreasey44
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu May 25, 2017 3:31 pm

Re: Ilderton Road

Postby briancreasey44 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:30 pm

Hi Ray,

Once the viaduct was built, cutting across W.P.L, I'm fairly certain that it's connection to Ilderton Rd/ Canterbury Road, was severed for good!
Access to Ilderton Road would be via Wagner Street, as it is now.
I worked at Wallis TV & Radio Ltd for over 20 years; our rear entrance was at the junction of W.P.L and Wagner Street, so know those roads very well.
All of the railway arches at the 'end' of W.P.L run at 90 degrees under the railway lines above; a tunnel following the route of W.P.L would have ended up being quite long, with it having to pass under the viaduct diagonally!
Maybe it was easier to divert Ilderton Road than build a long diagonal tunnel under the railway??
I noticed on Woodpoleman's map, a 'ramp' next to the OKR railway bridge? I always knew that spot as an engine and gearbox garage. I assume that was for access up to the viaduct... but for what I wonder?
I know there was a railway station (Old Kent Road & Hatcham) by the bridge, but always thought it was on the other side of the OKR?

Brian.
Last edited by briancreasey44 on Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:11 am, edited 2 times in total.

kiwi
Posts: 1065
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:53 am

Re: Ilderton Road

Postby kiwi » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:39 am

Hi Brian,
You are right, here’s a 1908 map showing where the station was. It opened around 1866 as Old Kent Road Station, then in 1870 it changed to Old Kent Road & Hatcham. In 1917, it closed during the First World War but never reopened.
OLD KENT ROAD MAP X.jpg
OLD KENT ROAD MAP 1908.


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